Welcome Paradoxers!
This blogspot will be our new home to share updates on everyone's new cd's, links to music venues, and other activities.
You can also post remembrances, photos, and any other memorabilia you would like to share. It would be great if this could become like an archive for the Paradox -- then and now.
More information to follow as I figure this out. In the meantime, please add your comments and keep the site alive and growing.
Saturday, November 21, 2009
This just in from the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, NYC this a.m.
Coupla questions. I don't see Ibbotson. Is he out? And did they finally hire a rhythm section instead of farming it out to whoever isn't singing and/or playing lead?
Rik, I don't think the other Jimmy has been with them for awhile. I don't know the story behind that.
I was also surprised to see the extra band members up there. They may have been part of the CBS backup crew?
In Huntington Beach Jimmie sang and played harmonica and the drums all on the same song. Maybe they just wanted to see him out front....? You probably know how these things work more than I do.
Looks like they hired a rhythm section. Should have done it years ago. Modern pop and country are built on a foundation of bass and drums, both of which are specialties that require the same kind of attention to detail and time in the practice space as lead guitar, fiddle, banjo, and harp.
Jackson figured this out when he made "The Pretender", back in 76. He even hired Springsteen's producer when he made the shift. Prior to that, he was a singer songwriting folkie, and Springsteen, who's first album sounded like an homage to Jack, went right by him with a full on rock band that included a serious rhythm section.
Listen to the difference between "Late For The Sky" and "The Pretender" which is the album that made a rockstar out of him. The difference is drums. Big drums.
The Dirt Band, with the innate conservatism of a bluegrass band, has always treated bass and drums almost like a nuisance. Somebody had to do it, so they laid it on the guy who wasn't singing or playing lead.
A new record and a professional rhythm section could give the Dirt Band the kind of hook they need to get themselves up out of the county fair circuit, and if the tune on the video is any indication, that's what they're going for. Jimmy needs to be up front and stay up front.
I/we really appreciate your insight and perspective, Rik... very interesting information (I was going to say "stuff") about things we (mostly) listeners don't often consider. No doubt it's rare that a band would opt for the lower paying/exposure gig/path, but do you think the NGDB guys want out of the fair circuit?... or was that a desire Jimmy F. or others may have talked about? (I know... if I'd been there, I might not be asking)
I also really liked seeing Jimmie up front... sure, to watch him play, but also to watch the guy sing. You know, he's sung more good harmonies anonymously over the years... hidden back there in the cage.
Wish you could have been at our last reunion, Tony. Jimmie performed on the Paradox Hoot Stage and sang several songs. He was incredible! An amazing talent. He also did a set with Ralph and Bruce that made me very sentimental (I know, I'm getting old!).
Steve later said if you look up the word "artist" in the dictionary you'd find Jimmie Fadden as the definition. I thought that was perfect.
You know, Diane... in watching the Dirt Band over the years, I was sort of waiting and half expecting one of the guys to step out into a solo career, if only briefly. That thought didn't really include McEuen as he's always seemed/been a free-standing artist. Mostly I've wondered about Jeff and Jimmie, and ended up concluding they were happy as member of the band and didn't really want/seek individual fame. Of course, having said all that, and given how generally in-the-dark I am, it won't surprise me to learn that those guys *have* done solo projects.
Well with all do respect I have to ring in on this one. Here are a few observations; Jeff is one of the best front men a band could ever have. He plays solid rhythm guitar, sings lead and harmony equally well and throws out snappy patter like a stand-up comic. What's even more important is his ability to arrange in a way that plays on the bands strengths and not it's weaknesses. Jimmy Fadden is a far better drummer then he gets credit for. It hasn't come easy either. I watched him evolve through years of disciplined hard work. Trust me that he takes his role as drummer very seriously. It probably would have helped the rhythm section to have some continuity with a dedicated bass player, but that said, I think he is doing a remarkable job. The fact that Jimmy writes,sings, and plays amazing harp is just more icing on the cake. As to solo careers...This band has always been about the whole rather then the parts and it seems to be a formula that works well. Then again,what do I know?
Given the requirements of modern pop music, and country is simply another flavor of pop, Drums is a full-time gig. If Jimmy is going to play drums, he needs to play drums. And isn't that he can't play, it'w whether he should. In no other band that I know of does the drummer spend a third of the show up front.
The fact is, he may be a good drummer, but he's not a great drummer. He is a great harp player and he's an invaluable asset to the band up front. Parking him at the drums with a woody-goodie around his neck is a waste of what he does best. Especially when you can hire a 20 year-old monster that eats, sleeps, and breathes drums to do it in world-class style.
And if I remember correctly, the band enjoyed it's most consistent success with Merel Bregante back there.
If I were managing the band I'd see it as a vocal trio of Hanna, Fadden, and Carpenter, with McCuen as color, and with Fadden having a more up front presence. And I'd give them a fully modern rhythm section, the way Jack did on "The Pretender". And yes, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
Do they want to get off the country fair circuit? Hook sure did. And when it looked like we couldn't, we bailed. I suspect that the Dirt Band would rather be playing the main stages with the likes of Brad Paisley and Taylor Swift. The modern country music market is a whole new place. They don't care about history. George Jones and Loretta Lynn have no place in it. But they do care about great entertainment, and that's something the Dirt Band has always been able to supply. But they need a more modern sound, and what I saw in that video suggests that they know that, and are going for it.
Having just visited Heartland USA and getting an earful of mindless "Clear Channel Country Music" it begs the question; WHY Bother? Since Shania Twain hit Nashville the sound has become so heavily formulated and formatted that it all sounds esentially the same. Now back to the debate....
You don't like Brad Paisley? C'mon, 95% of everything on the charts is always crap. That doesn't mean you can't make good, meaningful music and get hits off it. There's always SOMETHING good on the charts. Watch this all the way through. It's slick, it's modern and it's got bucks behind it. But it's got heart, and if it doesn't reach you I'll shut up.
Thomas Kincade Wonder Bread and Twinkies Brad Paisley Extreme experts in their craft with armies of cutting edge technicians. Millionaires admired and loved by millions.
Cynical profit driven corporate product lacking in nutrition. Poison and theft. Like Wal-Mart, they destroy the original enterprise.
Sticking close to the originals, the masters and the genius of the arts is easy to do.
Paisley is commercial trash.
The NGDB should dump the whole show and re-set, building on their own considerable talents instead of trying to jump on a band-wagon to hell.
Thats exactly what I meant by "Clear Channel Country Music" It's O.K. to like it and some of it even I do...but to paraphrase Malvina Reynolds "It's all made out of ticky-tacky and it all sounds just the same" You can spit polish it if you want too.
One interesting thing though, when I was in North Dakota I got to see one of those wind generators up close and personal. They are pretty awsome. They have strung them all over the what used to be family farms. Welcome to the future indeed!
I'll come out of the closet..... Buy for me the Rain.... Noonan/Copeland A great song beautifully sung by Steve. When the NGDB version came out I was appalled. That was nothing like the band I was a fan of. (Steve's album was sabotaged by producers and I feel the same about NGDB.) Then nothing. They re-set their tools for "Circle" and wow, a master-piece. Then nothing. Re-set again and Mr. Bojangles (Jerry Jeff's). Another masterpiece. Fishin' in the Dark...Waldman Jerry Jeff Walker Wendy Waldman Noonan/Copeland Stick with the great writers. This latest NGDB is not the stuff.
I don't know if it is or not, but it's apparent that they've chosen to polish their commercial cred. I, personally, have no problem with making music the paying public will buy.
These aren't a bunch of kids in the back room of McCabes. They're grown men with lives to live and families to feed, and the music business is hard and vicious. It's really easy to maintain your purity when nobody is depending on you but you But it looks to me as if the Dirt Band has made a conscious move to broaden their appeal and go for a bigger audience.
And since I've spent more than a few summers myself, busing from one county fair to the next and wishing to god I was somewhere else jamming with my pals and eating real food cooked by real people, I have immense sympathy with what they're trying to do, and I hope they pull it off.
If you haven't seen Paisley live, you have no idea what you're missing. The guy gives everything he's got and he gives value to the ticket buyer. Nobody gave him anything. He worked for it, snd he's earned it.
If memory serves me, it was the State Fairs that paid the bills for many years as did all those years of College gigs before that. Best thing is you didn't need to worry so much about the promoter flaking on you. Unfortunately I don't think the "New Nashville" has much interest in promoting the careers of 60 year old musicians going through another identity crisis. It just doesn't fit the new demographic. I wish the guys well with whatever road they take and look forward to seeing whats just around the bend.
The basic band has been together for nearly 45 years, they must be doing something right. I have always regarded the NGDB as like static electricity, constant and changing.
Our opinions are fun to discuss. The real world doesn't care. I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest here.
Since I pretty much lost touch with what the Dirt Band was doing by the end of the 70s. They haven't released an album in the last five years, and a longtime frontman, Jimmy Ibbotson is gone. Sounds to me as if they'd pretty much hung it up as a commercial act. The county fair circuit is where those acts go to die. That's where you'll find Ray Sawyer, playing in front of a bunch of hacks, not one of which I know, and calling it Dr. Hook, featuring Ray Sawyer. I chose, instead, to get a job and live a life. Getting up on the boards once again and doing songs that I'd worn out 30 years ago has no pull for me.
But if someone with the juice to secured us a decent distribution deal, and give us a chance to attract an audience with new faces in it, Dennis, Rod, and I would take a serious look at it. And we'd insist on playing music that we made up up, and enjoyed playing, which is what I assume that Jeff, Jimmie, Bob, and John did.
Back in the late 70s, Ricky Nelson, a far better and smarter musician than people knew (his father was a big band singer), was invited to play a huge oldies show with a bunch of old stars from pre british invasion 50s and 60s. Unlike most of them, he'd never quit, and was fronting an excellent Pocoesque country rock outfit trying to break back in and find his niche. And he passed on the invitation.
But it gave him an idea for a song, which was his next hit.
"So if you go to a Garden Party I wish you a lot of luck. But if memories are all I played I'd rather drive a truck."
That what a discussion is all about. I really say Thank You to Rik and Gary and Chris for speaking out strongly. Hearing points of view today and watching how various ideas are seen as time goes by is all important. Thanks again for your musical minds.
Does anyone think there a chance any of the NGDB guys themselves would entertain weighing in with a horse's-mouth post... just to set us all straight? I'd really like to hear their thoughts on all of this... not that anyone in the public eye (a tad more than the participants herein) would risk sucn an exposure. But then, this sort of reminds me of some advice my dad once offered when 10-year old Tony asked Glen Mathis how many head of cattle he had: never ask a cattleman how many head of cattle he has.
I will probably be talking to Jimmie today, so I will ask him if he would like to weigh in. It would be far better to hear what Jimmie or Duff would have to say about their musical direction, than us armchair pundits :-)
Since I'm personally fond of the band, and I like hearing them, I'm not fond of the idea of my professionalized critique being presented to my friends who are members. I was a little hesitant to post as much as I did, but musical career dynamics interest me. For obvious reasons, I suppose.
I just knocked off a two-pager to a Norwegian Hook fan who couldn't understand why Dennis and Ray can't pull it together to do a Dr. Hook reunion tour. And I had to use almost Kissinger level skills to make sense to her without saying, "Because, after being handcuffed together for 15 years, they don't much like each other."
So, I'm not interested in prying into what the Dirt Band have in mind. And I'm not sure I want someone, as my proxy, to ask... !.) Getting sick of the fair circuit? 2.) Did someone write some tunes that just beg to be sung? 3.) Did some guy in a Lexus make you an offer you couldn't refuse? 4.) Does someone have some bills that need to be paid?
They have lives to live, families to support, and an organization that needs a cash flow. And it looks like their gonna take another shot at it in middle age. I say god bless 'em. And I hope it works out. The business is crazy these days, and nobody really knows how it operates or where it's going. But you've got four really talented guys who are still doing it lo, these many years down the road, and I trust their judgment.
Since John,Jimmy & maybe Jeff view our Blog on occasion. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they are already aware of this thread. This could get interesting.
I wonder if there are any people out there that can say they love everything that someone would write, play, paint, etc, even from their favorite artists. We all enjoy what entertains us as individuals. No one can be infinitely entertaining, in any field, to everyone.
I had a wonderful chat with Jimmie yesterday and we talked about the latest posts on the blog as it relates to the NGDB. Jimmie emailed me today and asked me to post this.
"hey, happy thanksgiving.... read the blog, sounds like there is an anticipated audition for a seat on "the view".. way too much thinking. we used those guys ( byron, levon helms bass player and sean drummer for snl) to fill it out for tv,, just show business. this a band we all work together, there's just four of us so we try to use on our strengths ,,not abuse them. just like the banjo, or accordion, you wouldn't want harmonica on every song, jeff just wanted more on this one.....we've been doing this a long time and know what works for us and what doesn't. it's fun and we get paid well. we don't have the attitude, that it just sucks unless we get to play the best venue's,, there's nice people wherever we go. we don't spend all of our time playing fairs,we still sell out the small arenas in canada..it all comes down to, more people, or less people in one place that love our music and want to see us play. i like that. we have been grammy nominated something like 7 times, won three, have a song in the grammy hall of fame, a record in the library of congress, cma and ibma awards. and son-of-bitch i aint rich...... but i'm grateful, hopeful and happy 99% of the time.and for me that's sucess. if you really want to know what we do, lose the conjecture, come and see us do it, because unlike a lot of players our age we still do it, and have a geat time. get it ...enjoy life...we are still it...... "the paradox lives"........... jimmie"
Funny, I was just thinking about this last night as I read through this thread. I lived in London for part of the 1970s, so didn't seem the Dirt Band when they played in the state back then, but I've seen them play in Montana as far back as the early 1980s. So that was what ... 25 years ago at least.
I saw them in Butte, Livingston, Bozeman, and just recently in Missoula. We travel great distances in this state to hear music. And of course Huntington Beach. I'll never forget that weekend, which had to be one of the best vacations I've ever had.
Funny enough, Hannah even saw the Dirt Band play once on the fourth of July when she was in high school and worked for a local catering company. I only found out about it afterward, or would have tried to crash it. It's a very famous and huge private party in Livingston.
Glad to hear Jimmie ring in on this one. I think I hit the nail pretty close to the head. I did live with these guys for quite a while,so I do have some insight. Glad to hear they realize the import of keeping the fans close.Large or small venues, large or small sucesses, it still seems to be most about the music and the growing army of stedfast loyal fans. Right On Jimmie!
Hey guys this is Bob,been reading the blog.When I first started I was thinking about the old Chinese saying"who's the greater fool the man who knows everything, or the one who argues with him?".But then I got in to it and found it interesting.These questions and opinions are as old as time,check out the prologue to Goethe's "FAUST". Thanks Jimmie for coming in and bringing some real perpective to it all. As for me judging music and artists/entertainers is very personal and it's better when my brain's not involved.I call it the goose bump test,my body and feelings are smarter than I am. I think it is because I think good songs have souls and sometimes we do that justice and sometimes not,the song is more important than who's singing it. So Jimmie when you sang your working man song at the reunion I got goose bumps and tears and when I heard the band do it I didn't,you be the judge. In closing,"I'm always watching my back,carrying my thougths around in a brown paper sack" Love Bob
Great thoughts,Uncle Bob. Goose bumps really are one of the best tests. I also love the fact that a bunch of aging hippies can have a highly oppinionated discussion like this and still walk away friends when it's over.I think we're all pretty fortunate to have found a family like that.
Hey All, It's Mandie - I'm just catching up. Thought I'd mention that NGDB is my Aunt Jean's most favorite band and she keeps them in her CD player all the time. And she could and would clobber any opposition...
42 comments:
Coupla questions. I don't see Ibbotson. Is he out? And did they finally hire a rhythm section instead of farming it out to whoever isn't singing and/or playing lead?
Rik, I don't think the other Jimmy has been with them for awhile. I don't know the story behind that.
I was also surprised to see the extra band members up there. They may have been part of the CBS backup crew?
In Huntington Beach Jimmie sang and played harmonica and the drums all on the same song. Maybe they just wanted to see him out front....? You probably know how these things work more than I do.
I love this for all the old photos. Here it says Ibbotson left at the end of 2004.
http://www.nittygritty.com/band_history.html
Shows how behind the curve I am.
Looks like they hired a rhythm section. Should have done it years ago. Modern pop and country are built on a foundation of bass and drums, both of which are specialties that require the same kind of attention to detail and time in the practice space as lead guitar, fiddle, banjo, and harp.
Jackson figured this out when he made "The Pretender", back in 76. He even hired Springsteen's producer when he made the shift. Prior to that, he was a singer songwriting folkie, and Springsteen, who's first album sounded like an homage to Jack, went right by him with a full on rock band that included a serious rhythm section.
Listen to the difference between "Late For The Sky" and "The Pretender" which is the album that made a rockstar out of him. The difference is drums. Big drums.
The Dirt Band, with the innate conservatism of a bluegrass band, has always treated bass and drums almost like a nuisance. Somebody had to do it, so they laid it on the guy who wasn't singing or playing lead.
A new record and a professional rhythm section could give the Dirt Band the kind of hook they need to get themselves up out of the county fair circuit, and if the tune on the video is any indication, that's what they're going for. Jimmy needs to be up front and stay up front.
For extra credit, how many bluegrass musicians does it take to change a light bulb?
Five
The bass player changes it while the others stand around and bitch because it's electric.
I/we really appreciate your insight and perspective, Rik... very interesting information (I was going to say "stuff") about things we (mostly) listeners don't often consider. No doubt it's rare that a band would opt for the lower paying/exposure gig/path, but do you think the NGDB guys want out of the fair circuit?... or was that a desire Jimmy F. or others may have talked about? (I know... if I'd been there, I might not be asking)
I also really liked seeing Jimmie up front... sure, to watch him play, but also to watch the guy sing. You know, he's sung more good harmonies anonymously over the years... hidden back there in the cage.
Wish you could have been at our last reunion, Tony. Jimmie performed on the Paradox Hoot Stage and sang several songs. He was incredible! An amazing talent. He also did a set with Ralph and Bruce that made me very sentimental (I know, I'm getting old!).
Steve later said if you look up the word "artist" in the dictionary you'd find Jimmie Fadden as the definition. I thought that was perfect.
You know, Diane... in watching the Dirt Band over the years, I was sort of waiting and half expecting one of the guys to step out into a solo career, if only briefly. That thought didn't really include McEuen as he's always seemed/been a free-standing artist. Mostly I've wondered about Jeff and Jimmie, and ended up concluding they were happy as member of the band and didn't really want/seek individual fame. Of course, having said all that, and given how generally in-the-dark I am, it won't surprise me to learn that those guys *have* done solo projects.
Well with all do respect I have to ring in on this one. Here are a few observations;
Jeff is one of the best front men a band could ever have. He plays solid rhythm guitar, sings lead and harmony equally well and throws out snappy patter like a stand-up comic. What's even more important is his ability to arrange in a way that plays on the bands strengths and not it's weaknesses.
Jimmy Fadden is a far better drummer then he gets credit for. It hasn't come easy either. I watched him evolve through years of disciplined hard work. Trust me that he takes his role as drummer very seriously. It probably would have helped the rhythm section to have some continuity with a dedicated bass player, but that said, I think he is doing a remarkable job. The fact that Jimmy writes,sings, and plays amazing harp is just more icing on the cake.
As to solo careers...This band has always been about the whole rather then the parts and it seems to be a formula that works well. Then again,what do I know?
You know a lot, and I respect your opinion.
Given the requirements of modern pop music, and country is simply another flavor of pop, Drums is a full-time gig. If Jimmy is going to play drums, he needs to play drums. And isn't that he can't play, it'w whether he should. In no other band that I know of does the drummer spend a third of the show up front.
The fact is, he may be a good drummer, but he's not a great drummer. He is a great harp player and he's an invaluable asset to the band up front. Parking him at the drums with a woody-goodie around his neck is a waste of what he does best. Especially when you can hire a 20 year-old monster that eats, sleeps, and breathes drums to do it in world-class style.
And if I remember correctly, the band enjoyed it's most consistent success with Merel Bregante back there.
If I were managing the band I'd see it as a vocal trio of Hanna, Fadden, and Carpenter, with McCuen as color, and with Fadden having a more up front presence. And I'd give them a fully modern rhythm section, the way Jack did on "The Pretender". And yes, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
Do they want to get off the country fair circuit? Hook sure did. And when it looked like we couldn't, we bailed. I suspect that the Dirt Band would rather be playing the main stages with the likes of Brad Paisley and Taylor Swift. The modern country music market is a whole new place. They don't care about history. George Jones and Loretta Lynn have no place in it. But they do care about great entertainment, and that's something the Dirt Band has always been able to supply. But they need a more modern sound, and what I saw in that video suggests that they know that, and are going for it.
Having just visited Heartland USA and getting an earful of mindless "Clear Channel Country Music" it begs the question; WHY Bother? Since Shania Twain hit Nashville the sound has become so heavily formulated and formatted that it all sounds esentially the same. Now back to the debate....
You don't like Brad Paisley? C'mon, 95% of everything on the charts is always crap. That doesn't mean you can't make good, meaningful music and get hits off it. There's always SOMETHING good on the charts. Watch this all the way through. It's slick, it's modern and it's got bucks behind it. But it's got heart, and if it doesn't reach you I'll shut up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhkVNnLcVX4
By the way, the boy plays his ass off.
Thomas Kincade
Wonder Bread and Twinkies
Brad Paisley
Extreme experts in their craft with armies of
cutting edge technicians.
Millionaires admired and loved by millions.
Cynical profit driven corporate product lacking in nutrition.
Poison and theft.
Like Wal-Mart, they destroy the original enterprise.
Sticking close to the originals, the masters and the genius of the arts is easy to do.
Paisley is commercial trash.
The NGDB should dump the whole show and re-set, building on their own considerable talents instead of trying to jump on a band-wagon to hell.
Thats exactly what I meant by "Clear Channel Country Music" It's O.K. to like it and some of it even I do...but to paraphrase Malvina Reynolds "It's all made out of ticky-tacky and it all sounds just the same" You can spit polish it if you want too.
One interesting thing though, when I was in North Dakota I got to see one of those wind generators up close and personal. They are pretty awsome. They have strung them all over the what used to be family farms. Welcome to the future indeed!
Rand, Guess you and I can't duel over this one. I couldn't agree more. Looks like it's Rik & Gary at ten paces at sunrise. Wanna be my second?
I'll come out of the closet.....
Buy for me the Rain....
Noonan/Copeland
A great song beautifully sung by Steve.
When the NGDB version came out I was appalled.
That was nothing like the band I was a fan of.
(Steve's album was sabotaged by producers and I feel the same about NGDB.)
Then nothing.
They re-set their tools for "Circle" and wow, a master-piece.
Then nothing.
Re-set again and Mr. Bojangles (Jerry Jeff's). Another masterpiece.
Fishin' in the Dark...Waldman
Jerry Jeff Walker
Wendy Waldman
Noonan/Copeland
Stick with the great writers.
This latest NGDB is not the stuff.
This can be applied to just about anything.
Courtesy of Paul Simon....
"Remember : one man's ceiling
is another man's floor
Remember: one man's ceiling
is another man's floor"
"This latest NGDB is not the stuff."
I don't know if it is or not, but it's apparent that they've chosen to polish their commercial cred. I, personally, have no problem with making music the paying public will buy.
These aren't a bunch of kids in the back room of McCabes. They're grown men with lives to live and families to feed, and the music business is hard and vicious. It's really easy to maintain your purity when nobody is depending on you but you But it looks to me as if the Dirt Band has made a conscious move to broaden their appeal and go for a bigger audience.
And since I've spent more than a few summers myself, busing from one county fair to the next and wishing to god I was somewhere else jamming with my pals and eating real food cooked by real people, I have immense sympathy with what they're trying to do, and I hope they pull it off.
If you haven't seen Paisley live, you have no idea what you're missing. The guy gives everything he's got and he gives value to the ticket buyer. Nobody gave him anything. He worked for it, snd he's earned it.
Chris...They also say "opinions are like a.. H....Every body has one" including me.
I agree, no arguments from me, even I have opinions, tons of them, but what I want to know is, if that isn't the stuff, then what is THE STUFF? :-)
If memory serves me, it was the State Fairs that paid the bills for many years as did all those years of College gigs before that. Best thing is you didn't need to worry so much about the promoter flaking on you.
Unfortunately I don't think the "New Nashville" has much interest in promoting the careers of 60 year old musicians going through another identity crisis. It just doesn't fit the new demographic.
I wish the guys well with whatever road they take and look forward to seeing whats just around the bend.
Rik,any chance you could get me back stage passes so I can discuss this with Brad?
The basic band has been together for nearly 45 years, they must be doing something right. I have always regarded the NGDB as like static electricity, constant and changing.
Burma Shave!
Our opinions are fun to discuss. The real world doesn't care. I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest here.
Since I pretty much lost touch with what the Dirt Band was doing by the end of the 70s. They haven't released an album in the last five years, and a longtime frontman, Jimmy Ibbotson is gone. Sounds to me as if they'd pretty much hung it up as a commercial act. The county fair circuit is where those acts go to die. That's where you'll find Ray Sawyer, playing in front of a bunch of hacks, not one of which I know, and calling it Dr. Hook, featuring Ray Sawyer. I chose, instead, to get a job and live a life. Getting up on the boards once again and doing songs that I'd worn out 30 years ago has no pull for me.
But if someone with the juice to secured us a decent distribution deal, and give us a chance to attract an audience with new faces in it, Dennis, Rod, and I would take a serious look at it. And we'd insist on playing music that we made up up, and enjoyed playing, which is what I assume that Jeff, Jimmie, Bob, and John did.
Back in the late 70s, Ricky Nelson, a far better and smarter musician than people knew (his father was a big band singer), was invited to play a huge oldies show with a bunch of old stars from pre british invasion 50s and 60s. Unlike most of them, he'd never quit, and was fronting an excellent Pocoesque country rock outfit trying to break back in and find his niche. And he passed on the invitation.
But it gave him an idea for a song, which was his next hit.
"So if you go to a Garden Party
I wish you a lot of luck.
But if memories are all I played
I'd rather drive a truck."
Opinions are important.
That what a discussion is all about.
I really say Thank You to Rik and Gary and Chris for speaking out strongly.
Hearing points of view today and watching how various ideas are seen as time goes by is
all important.
Thanks again for your musical minds.
Does anyone think there a chance any of the NGDB guys themselves would entertain weighing in with a horse's-mouth post... just to set us all straight? I'd really like to hear their thoughts on all of this... not that anyone in the public eye (a tad more than the participants herein) would risk sucn an exposure. But then, this sort of reminds me of some advice my dad once offered when 10-year old Tony asked Glen Mathis how many head of cattle he had: never ask a cattleman how many head of cattle he has.
I will probably be talking to Jimmie today, so I will ask him if he would like to weigh in. It would be far better to hear what Jimmie or Duff would have to say about their musical direction, than us armchair pundits :-)
Any luck on the back stage passes?
Since I'm personally fond of the band, and I like hearing them, I'm not fond of the idea of my professionalized critique being presented to my friends who are members. I was a little hesitant to post as much as I did, but musical career dynamics interest me. For obvious reasons, I suppose.
I just knocked off a two-pager to a Norwegian Hook fan who couldn't understand why Dennis and Ray can't pull it together to do a Dr. Hook reunion tour. And I had to use almost Kissinger level skills to make sense to her without saying, "Because, after being handcuffed together for 15 years, they don't much like each other."
So, I'm not interested in prying into what the Dirt Band have in mind. And I'm not sure I want someone, as my proxy, to ask... !.) Getting sick of the fair circuit? 2.) Did someone write some tunes that just beg to be sung? 3.) Did some guy in a Lexus make you an offer you couldn't refuse? 4.) Does someone have some bills that need to be paid?
They have lives to live, families to support, and an organization that needs a cash flow. And it looks like their gonna take another shot at it in middle age. I say god bless 'em. And I hope it works out. The business is crazy these days, and nobody really knows how it operates or where it's going. But you've got four really talented guys who are still doing it lo, these many years down the road, and I trust their judgment.
You know, I need to pay better attention, and not read so quickly. Tony nailed it already.
"Never ask cattleman how many head he has."
Since John,Jimmy & maybe Jeff view our Blog on occasion. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they are already aware of this thread. This could get interesting.
I wonder if there are any people out there that can say they love everything that someone would write, play, paint, etc, even from their favorite artists. We all enjoy what entertains us as individuals. No one can be infinitely entertaining, in any field, to everyone.
God knows we try.
I had a wonderful chat with Jimmie yesterday and we talked about the latest posts on the blog as it relates to the NGDB. Jimmie emailed me today and asked me to post this.
"hey, happy thanksgiving.... read the blog, sounds like there is an anticipated audition for a seat on "the view".. way too much thinking. we used those guys ( byron, levon helms bass player and sean drummer for snl) to fill it out for tv,, just show business. this a band we all work together, there's just four of us so we try to use on our strengths ,,not abuse them. just like the banjo, or accordion, you wouldn't want harmonica on every song, jeff just wanted more on this one.....we've been doing this a long time and know what works for us and what doesn't. it's fun and we get paid well. we don't have the attitude, that it just sucks unless we get to play the best venue's,, there's nice people wherever we go. we don't spend all of our time playing fairs,we still sell out the small arenas in canada..it all comes down to, more people, or less people in one place that love our music and want to see us play. i like that. we have been grammy nominated something like 7 times, won three, have a song in the grammy hall of fame, a record in the library of congress, cma and ibma awards. and son-of-bitch i aint rich...... but i'm grateful, hopeful and happy 99% of the time.and for me that's sucess. if you really want to know what we do, lose the conjecture, come and see us do it, because unlike a lot of players our age we still do it, and have a geat time. get it ...enjoy life...we are still it...... "the paradox lives"........... jimmie"
The Paradox Lives indeed.
Funny, I was just thinking about this last night as I read through this thread. I lived in London for part of the 1970s, so didn't seem the Dirt Band when they played in the state back then, but I've seen them play in Montana as far back as the early 1980s. So that was what ... 25 years ago at least.
I saw them in Butte, Livingston, Bozeman, and just recently in Missoula. We travel great distances in this state to hear music. And of course Huntington Beach. I'll never forget that weekend, which had to be one of the best vacations I've ever had.
Funny enough, Hannah even saw the Dirt Band play once on the fourth of July when she was in high school and worked for a local catering company. I only found out about it afterward, or would have tried to crash it. It's a very famous and huge private party in Livingston.
So the Smith family is most definitely fans.
Glad to hear Jimmie ring in on this one. I think I hit the nail pretty close to the head. I did live with these guys for quite a while,so I do have some insight. Glad to hear they realize the import of keeping the fans close.Large or small venues, large or small sucesses, it still seems to be most about the music and the growing army of stedfast loyal fans. Right On Jimmie!
Hey guys this is Bob,been reading the blog.When I first started I was thinking about the old Chinese saying"who's the greater fool the man who knows everything, or the one who argues with him?".But then I got in to it and found it interesting.These questions and opinions are as old as time,check out the prologue to
Goethe's "FAUST".
Thanks Jimmie for coming in and bringing some real perpective to it all.
As for me judging music and artists/entertainers is very personal and it's better when my brain's not involved.I call it the goose bump test,my body and feelings are smarter than I am.
I think it is because I think good songs have souls and sometimes we do that justice and sometimes not,the song is more important than who's singing it.
So Jimmie when you sang your working man song at the reunion I got goose bumps and tears and when I heard the band do it I didn't,you be the judge.
In closing,"I'm always watching my back,carrying my thougths around in a brown paper sack"
Love Bob
Great thoughts,Uncle Bob. Goose bumps really are one of the best tests. I also love the fact that a bunch of aging hippies can have a highly oppinionated discussion like this and still walk away friends when it's over.I think we're all pretty fortunate to have found a family like that.
Hey Bob here,
In support of Rik's postion I would say,can you imagine Stevie Ray without Double Trouble?Talk about goose bumps!
BOb
Hey All, It's Mandie - I'm just catching up. Thought I'd mention that NGDB is my Aunt Jean's most favorite band and she keeps them in her CD player all the time. And she could and would clobber any opposition...
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